(no subject)

[averygoodun42]

Why does everyone assume that Hermione didn't get her parents' permission to modify their memories? WHY?

She's a logical gal. I suspect she comes by that honestly. It seems reasonable to think that she would have reasoned with her parents BEFORE pointing a wand at them.

Don'cha think?

Comments

[gryffin23.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, but Hermione is also a teenager and a very strong minded one at that. She has the view that she's always right even when she isn't. She may have asked her parents, true, but if they said no, they'd take their chances, would she really have listened? I'm not so sure; she often doesn't listen to Harry or Ron and they're her best friends and teens are much more likely to listen to their friends than to their parents so . . .

plus being on an evil wizard's hit list might possibly cause some of one's logic to disappear out the window.

Just playing Voldemort's advocate ;)

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

...teens are much more likely to listen to their friends than to their parents

Not necessarily. I'm finding I might have an odd relationship with my parents, but my parents' advice almost always topped that of my friends, as they had more experience in matters. (And can you blame Hermione for not listening to Harry and Ron 90% of the time? ;-)

And perhaps her or her parents' logic might go out the window, but she didn't seem to be suffering a major loss of logic skillz at the beginning of the book...

[alienor77310.livejournal.com]

So, what are you going to do with that bunny?

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

LOL. I have started laying something out in my head...

[novin-ha.livejournal.com]

I assumed as much, because it seems to be done for their safety rather than hers, and I don't really imagine parents agreeing to such a thing. Plus, she has a history of making decisions for others without consulting them first because she just know better than them. See house elves.

Also, wouldn't she have mentioned it? I do believe it's strongly implied that she did not ask their permission. I do believe what she did was wrong (also awesome) and that's why I love her - she's flawed and passionate and reckless ;)

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

And see, she could argue very well that if they weren't safe, she would worry about them, which would distract her possibly leading to a fatal mistake. That would make fleeing the best way to keep Hermione safe.

And yes, she has been known to make decisions for others, but she also learns from her mistakes. Her approach to the house-elf problem was a mistake, but she learned. She wasn't intent on freeing Kreacher, for example, but she did want to treat him kindly. She also learned to examine possible consequences a little more thoroughly after the whole Centaur/Umbridge affair. She probably would have forseen how damaging it would have been to her and her parents already strained relationship to hex them without asking first.

I reread the passage, and no, it's not implied one way or the other.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

She probably would have forseen how damaging it would have been to her and her parents already strained relationship to hex them without asking first.

This is assuming that when they come back, they know they've been away and that their daughter's been fighting this huge mega war while they've been gone. If she can change their memories to forget they had a daughter at all, she can certainly change them so that they've forgotten that they forgot.

Also, there's not much evidence that they're aware of Voldemort and the like at all.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Also, there's not much evidence that they're aware of Voldemort and the like at all.

Except that coming into Hogwarts, Hermione knew who Harry was, having read all about him and You-Know-Who. And I can't believe that her parents wouldn't have read those books as well, just to get a grasp of what they were sending their daughter into. Especially when she writes or comes home telling them all about how she and the Harry Potter are now bestest friends.

And on that topic, I think that it would require an awful lot of mutual respect and trust for parents to send their kid off to a magic school as they did with Hermione. And inferring from Hermione's excitement at starting school, I'm guessing that they weren't openly opposed to it. Such negativity tends to rub off on children, even if it is only subliminal negativity.

Also, I did think about her altering their memory so they don't remember they were even gone, but they have a lot of exposure to the outside world. Their clients would be sure to say, "Oh, welcme back!" or some such. Enough small things that Hermione would be sure to miss would add up so that their suspicions might be aroused.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

And I can't believe that her parents wouldn't have read those books as well, just to get a grasp of what they were sending their daughter into.

Mm, maybe. I don't think necessarily, though. Also I imagine it'd be hard for them to believe all of it.

I did think about her altering their memory so they don't remember they were even gone, but they have a lot of exposure to the outside world. Their clients would be sure to say, "Oh, welcme back!" or some such. Enough small things that Hermione would be sure to miss would add up so that their suspicions might be aroused.

I was more thinking so that they knew they'd been gone but had harmless reasons for it. Why shouldn't they take a year abroad while their daughter is safely away at school?

[timestep.livejournal.com]

Because if my child came to me and said

"Hey, I know I'm barely 18, but I fighting in a war with this horrible wizard and I need to modify your memories so you don't remember me and leave the country so you will be safe while I stay here and fight"

I'd curse them a good one and tell them that there was no way in the world I'd let them allow me to forget them just so I can be safe if they are in danger.

But, if her parents are different from me and would let her, most teens wouldn't think they would because most teens don't think their parents understand them.

As it was, they were afraid to tell Molly they were going underground to find the Horacruxes (I think but I only read DH once in a marathon read so I might be getting things mixed up with fanfic) and she understood the war. Hermione's parents didn't live in the wizarding world.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Ah... but see, that's assuming that you had the power to curse them. Hermione's parents I'm sure are well aware that there is no way for them to stop Hermione from doing what she pleases (although they would hope she would respect their decision if they chose not to get their memories altered).

Would most tenns even think of their parents being in danger because of them?

Molly is a whole different kettle of fish. Molly had the power to stop them, for one, but also, Molly was ruled by emotion, not logic. They did talk to Arthur, after all. And they didn't tell anyone what they were really going to do, and as such, Hermione wouldn't be telling her parents that, either.

And actually, the argument that Molly understood the war (and Harry and Hermione's role in it) whereas Hermione's parents didn't is as much an argument in favor of Hermione's parents going along with Hermione's plan. They were powerless and relied on their daughter's knowledge, advice and magic when it came to the wizarding world.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

Hermione's parents I'm sure are well aware that there is no way for them to stop Hermione from doing what she pleases

I completely disagree. Not many parents would be able to accept this, particularly of a teenager; hell, most adults I know won't accept it of their grown up kids! But also again, affection and loyalty issues. They might know they're not be able to physically stop her but I can't imagine they wouldn't believe they could talk her out of it one way or another.

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

It's true. It's not a dynamic that's often explored.

So I shall in the Fic of Doom I'm working on.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Oooh! Please do!

[daintress.livejournal.com]

I could see her doing it either way, honestly. She might have kept the whole war situation from them all that time, and just continued to do so, using magic as an aid, OR, they might have been fully informed and gone along willingly because they trusted her. With her personality, it could go either way.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if she kept the whole war from them, then I spose she would reason that it would be worth the possible disowning if she just hexed them without asking as they would possibly disown her after finding out about her exploits after it was all done. That's the only circumstance I can imagine her doing so, though.

[junewilliams7.livejournal.com]

Good discussion topic. I think it could go either way, but my inclination is that Hermione did not ask their permission. A few factors that make me believe this, some more important than others:

- If I were a parent (Muggle or magical), I would never permit my 17-year-old to mess with my brain. Hermione is not a trained Obliviator and didn't learn memory charms in a class - she learned from a book. What happens when a memory charm goes wrong? Ask Gilderoy Lockhart. I doubt Molly Weasley would let any of her kids (or even a trained adult) do a memory charm on her to forget a child!

- If I were a parent, I would not be happy about my 17-year-old daughter spending a year with two 17-y-o boys in a tent, unchaperoned, looking for trouble with evil wizards who kill. Especially if one of the boys is her boyfriend.

- If I had my own dental practice, I would not suddenly skip the country and go to Australia without a lot of advance prep. There are employees who need jobs, taxes to be paid, patients who need to be sent to a new dentist or a new replacement dentist to be hired, and mortgage and car payments to arrange for from my bank account or a house and cars to be sold. In the time Hermione was home, I don’t think they would’ve had enough time (see last paragraph below).

- Hermione has a history of not telling her parents what she’s up to, and not spending time with them. In real-life, this happens with many teens, who think their parents don’t understand them and thus they don’t try to become close to their parents again until maybe in their 20’s or 30’s.

Brief history of Hermione and her parents:
- Year 1 – She sees them during Christmas break and summer.
- Year 2 – She stays at school during Christmas to work on the Polyjuice and ends up as a cat. Goes home for summer, goes with parents to France (hasn’t seen them since September 1 and she’s only 13).
- Year 3 – Hermione apparently cuts her summer short with her parents, who drop her off at Leaky Cauldron to get her school stuff. She stays at school during Christmas
- Year 4 - She cuts her summer short with her parents, goes to the Burrow, goes with Weasleys and Harry to Quidditch Cup. She stays at school during Christmas for Yule Ball and Viktor.
- Year 5 – Sounds like she spent most/all of summer at Burrow. She is named as a prefect, and sends letter to her parents: “They'll be really pleased - I mean prefect is something they can understand.” Sounds like she doesn’t think highly of her parents, mere Muggles. She skips Christmas ski trip with her parents, to her parents’ disappointment; instead goes to St Mungo’s on Christmas with Ron and Harry to visit Mr Weasley, see Gilderoy, etc.
- Year 6 – I think Hermione spends Christmas with her parents (or stayed at Hogwarts), because she and Ron had that tiff over Slughorn’s Christmas party, etc., and there’s no mention of her at the Burrow in chapter 16. According to book 7, in the summer between years 6-7, looks like she went home to do her parents’ memories, but it was a brief trip, as the school year ends in June (third or fourth week) and her parents’ visit was finished before Harry’s escape from the Dursley house, which was before his birthday (i.e., before July 31). Hermione had also made time by the escape to steal books from Dumbledore’s library, etc.

[junewilliams7.livejournal.com]

one last PS before I shut up: I could see Hermione realizing full well that Harry and Ron are never going to find the Horcruxes without her. so her very logical reasoning might be something like this:

- on one hand, the fate of the entire wizarding world depends on her helping Harry
- on the other hand, two Muggle dentists might want her to stay at home, and they know NOTHING about the war, Dumbledore getting killed by a professor, Death Eaters attacking Hogwarts, etc. Hermione would not want to stay home and go to a Muggle school where she'd be behind everyone. She has a whole world to save!

it reminds me of movie 1, where they Petrified Neville without taking the time to explain the whole complicated situation. Movie-Neville tries to stop them from leaving. Movie-Hermione just says: "Neville, I’m really really sorry about this. Petrificus totalus!" Then they walk off. Harry tells Neville, "Sorry;' Hermione does the same; Ron says, "It’s for your own good you know."

You know that I will read ANY story by you - when the plot bunny speaks, you must hop to it!

[darth-kittius.livejournal.com]

I have to say say that I can't see her asking first, but it's worth exploring. Sounds like a good fic!

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

For a couple reasons. First, I think if Hermione's parents REALLY understood the amount of danger going on--and her asking to modify their memories would certainly clue them in--they wouldn't have let her go back to Hogwarts; she'd have had to use force on them, or at the very least threaten them. Second, I don't think many people would voluntarily have their memories altered. Third, I don't think ANY loving parents would voluntarily have their memories altered so they forgot their children. She might have convinced them to go abroad, yes. I don't think she'd ever have convinced them to allow her to make them forget her. She did it for her own peace of mind, not theirs. She wanted to not have to worry about them. And I simply can't be convinced, given that it's well implied she has a good loving relationship with them, that they'd ever have voluntarily agreed to the process. She might well have TRIED to reason with them, but trying and succeeding are definitley not the same. Frankly, I think it'd be more logical in the circumstances for her to do it without permission rather than to try and get it. All she'd get would be a futile argument, and she really didn't have time for that.