Yep. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense: men aren't stupid, and they would have seen how essential women were to life, both in their physical efforts (beyond child-bearing and sex) and in their rational work.
"The hand that rocks the cradle," and all that (which seems to have been completely forgotten in the course of women's lib, or completely undervalued).
Oh, but I am talking about mainstream feminism. Motherhood centered feminism has grown with the advent of the internet, but it's always been the looked-down-upon branch (along with the crazy cat lady people) until the last decade or so.
(insert paranoid theories about patriarchal media determining what becomes mainstream here)
Yeah well over here, feminism has been pretty much concerned with childcare, maternity rights, and all sorts of mother related issues, so ... very different.
Here's an excerpt of the US's basic feminist stance:
There's likely to be more buzz Thursday about Democratic strategist and DNC adviser Hilary Rosen's accusation that Ann Romney has never worked.
"Guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life," Rosen told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Wednesday evening during an interview about the "war on women."
Moments later, Ann Romney made her debut on Twitter: @AnnDRomney. Her first and only Tweet as of early Thursday morning: "I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work."
Motherhood still isn't valued here. And, well, yes, childcare, maternity rights and all that have always been issues here, but the underscoring belief is that it's better to go out into the workforce (and hand your kids over to someone else to raise) than to exert your own views and power through your children (rather than your spending). I'm not saying that women shouldn't work, mind, but there seems to be a general silence on how important the role of "mother" really is.
Well firstly, children aren't there to have power exerted over them, or to have your views put upon them.
And ultimately, if you think that women had more power when they stayed at home and looked after the kiddies... No, no, they didn't. The 1950's mother had no choices, no power, no rights, and no ability to control her own fertility, deny sex, had no right to her own credit, and had no autonomy.
So conservative women are wrong when they say they're empowered by staying at home with the little ones, because what they do has costs in time, money, freedom and independence. They get to make those choices because they are free to do so on the backs of women who threw themselves in front of horses, and starved, for those freedoms, and for whome they have nothing but contempt.
I never took you to belong solely to the Nature camp! LOL! Of course they're not there to have power exerted over them, but those who raise children do have enormous influence on them and their thinking. Nurture does have its say along with Nature.
And I'm not saying that women of the 50's weren't oppressed in a material way. They were; there have been loads of advances and we're now considered almost as hireable as men by the majority of society. Thing is, the fight has consistently been to get men's jobs and be able to act like men, instead of valuing women's interests/skills/personalities.
We've been fighting for sameness rather than equality, which is seen by the societal raspberries blown at those who choose to stay at home and eschew material gain. The conservatives aren't wrong about the empowering nature of motherhood for those who choose it. They're only wrong if they insist that's the only path for a woman.
(Sorry. I'm not trying to harp; it just takes a while for me to think.)
Otherwise said, at least here, women have been so eager to throw off the yoke of patriarchal (religious) oppression that they forgot that in many ways, they were more powerful before in a long-term sense.
Yes, women need to be able to work without threat (maternity leave included), they damn well need to be paid as equals, and all the other stuff that goes along with being human (with or without ovaries). But we also need to recognize that the conservative women aren't necessarily wrong when they say they're empowered by staying home with the little ones. And I wish modern society were set up so that it was easier to choose that course for those who want it.
(That said, god, am I glad to be able to hand my kid off to the public school teachers, and then have him stay through after-school twice a week!)
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 10:15 pm (UTC)"The hand that rocks the cradle," and all that (which seems to have been completely forgotten in the course of women's lib, or completely undervalued).
no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 10:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 10:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 11:41 pm (UTC)(insert paranoid theories about patriarchal media determining what becomes mainstream here)
no subject
Date: 2012-04-11 11:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 01:58 pm (UTC)There's likely to be more buzz Thursday about Democratic strategist and DNC adviser Hilary Rosen's accusation that Ann Romney has never worked.
"Guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life," Rosen told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Wednesday evening during an interview about the "war on women."
Moments later, Ann Romney made her debut on Twitter: @AnnDRomney. Her first and only Tweet as of early Thursday morning: "I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work."
Motherhood still isn't valued here. And, well, yes, childcare, maternity rights and all that have always been issues here, but the underscoring belief is that it's better to go out into the workforce (and hand your kids over to someone else to raise) than to exert your own views and power through your children (rather than your spending). I'm not saying that women shouldn't work, mind, but there seems to be a general silence on how important the role of "mother" really is.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 05:58 pm (UTC)And ultimately, if you think that women had more power when they stayed at home and looked after the kiddies... No, no, they didn't. The 1950's mother had no choices, no power, no rights, and no ability to control her own fertility, deny sex, had no right to her own credit, and had no autonomy.
So conservative women are wrong when they say they're empowered by staying at home with the little ones, because what they do has costs in time, money, freedom and independence. They get to make those choices because they are free to do so on the backs of women who threw themselves in front of horses, and starved, for those freedoms, and for whome they have nothing but contempt.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 06:53 pm (UTC)And I'm not saying that women of the 50's weren't oppressed in a material way. They were; there have been loads of advances and we're now considered almost as hireable as men by the majority of society. Thing is, the fight has consistently been to get men's jobs and be able to act like men, instead of valuing women's interests/skills/personalities.
We've been fighting for sameness rather than equality, which is seen by the societal raspberries blown at those who choose to stay at home and eschew material gain. The conservatives aren't wrong about the empowering nature of motherhood for those who choose it. They're only wrong if they insist that's the only path for a woman.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 03:01 pm (UTC)Otherwise said, at least here, women have been so eager to throw off the yoke of patriarchal (religious) oppression that they forgot that in many ways, they were more powerful before in a long-term sense.
Yes, women need to be able to work without threat (maternity leave included), they damn well need to be paid as equals, and all the other stuff that goes along with being human (with or without ovaries). But we also need to recognize that the conservative women aren't necessarily wrong when they say they're empowered by staying home with the little ones. And I wish modern society were set up so that it was easier to choose that course for those who want it.
(That said, god, am I glad to be able to hand my kid off to the public school teachers, and then have him stay through after-school twice a week!)
no subject
Date: 2012-04-13 04:20 pm (UTC)One person gets it.
Also, I agree with your last post entirely.