chick, babe/baby, little one.... which one would you chose?

[averygoodun42]

A recent post of mugglegirl0908's sent me over to look at gunderpants' post about a letter written by a self-proclaimed "nice guy." I must admit my reading of the letter was a bit different from gun's.

I'm a guy and I also happen to be a nice guy. I have always been rejected/overlooked/shotdown by women because I'm too nice. I was raised to treat women, and people in general, with respect. I hold the door for chicks, I say yes ma'am, and I say please and thank you. And I never get any p***y.

Gun tell us that she's grateful that this guy "alerted me to his creep!status within forty words of his diatribe," and I agree, but for very different reasons.  It wasn't his plea for "p***y," because, well, I believe, in my rather chauvanistic (but IMO realistic) way that that is all guys think about.  I consider DH to be a very nice guy, but he openly admits thinking along those lines most of the time, especially when confronted with attractive females.  As the letter writer tells us: that doesn't sound very much like a nice guy, but that's in my head, not out loud.

No, what bothered me about those first forty words was the I hold the door for chicks part.  I don't disagree that holding doors open for anyone is a courteous thing to do, and it's always appreciated when they do so for me, but I do object to being called a "chick." 

It brings to mind a discussion my best friend from high school and I had.  The topic was: Which would you prefer to be called, "chick" or "babe (or baby)."  I was genuinely shocked that my friend preferred chick over babe.  Looking back, I can kind of sort of understand her reasoning, in that "babe/baby" does imply a level of immaturity that would be deeply offensive to the fledgling adult status of a teenager.  It also has that nasty "who's yo daddy" thing going on, where there's an implied shift of power to the person using the term.

But, in my opinion, at least you aren't being referred to as a farm animal.

The thing I like about "babe/baby" is that it's gender transferable.  You're almost as likely to hear a guy being called babe as you are a gal.  That seems equitable.

No.  To me, chick is the far more offensive term because not only is the girl being compared to a farm animal, a brainless farm animal, but it's a baby brainless farm animal at that, so you can't even take away the immaturity jibe. 

(Granted that if a guy called me either one of those terms without it being in a facetious manner, it would probably end the relationship, but I'm picky that way.  I actually think words hold power, as do names.)

So, DH and I were talking about this after he'd read a bit of gun's post, and it brought to mind the term of endearment I've seen about in quite a few SS/HG fics of late that grates on my nerves no end: little one.  Granted, I do have a personal grudge against the term seeing as I was nicknamed "Littlebet" by a neighbor who refused to recognize (or, worse, did recognize) how much the name pissed me off, even at a young age, and continued to call me that until I was a teenager.  grr. 

But beyond the personal, it grates on my nerves because, in my mind, you call a child "little one," not a lover, because "little one" doesn't  only imply a power imbalance, it CREATES it.  Of course, maybe that makes it perfect for the SS/HG ship, because there is an inherent imbalance of power in that relationship.  But I digress.

Of course, all of the terms will vary in their degrees of offensiveness by cultural region, I suspect.  DH knows a guy in Texas (and it's horrible of me to hold all of Texas to the standard of this one guy, I know, and I apologize) who refers to his current girlfriend as "his chick."  DH's comment to me was to wonder how long she would be "his chick" if he continued to call her that, then to wonder if it's different in Texas.  Like everywhere else, though, it probably differs from person to person.

So, what do you think?  If you had to choose, which would it be, and why?

Comments

[vanityfair00.livejournal.com]

Neither one, thank you.

I might be able to handle "my girl," but even that would be pushing it.

My dad calls me and my sisters Joe (yes all three of us.) We never had schmoopy nicknames as kids like pumpkin or angel. It was knothead or Joe. And I can't really see myself wanting a sappy endearment now. I really liked Logan on Gilmore Girls calling Rory, Ace. Now that is romantic in my mind.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree! If I HAD to choose, it would be "babe," but only if the circumstances were quite dire. I like Professor Bhaer (from Little Women)'s "Heart's dearest." It is so very sweet as to give instant cavities, but it also sounds sincere from his character.

The endearments I like are the ones that appear spontaneously, then stick. There are several, and most of them are said with lots of humor.

[mugglegirl0908.livejournal.com]

People actually write Severus referring to Hermione as "little one"?

Argh! WHY? *hits fandom on the head with a big stick*

I totally agree with your assessment. I think the "creep" factor didn't just come from the use of the word "p***y" but, as you said, the use of some other words, such as chick. I think Gun pointed out, too, that there was some very thinly veiled misogyny throughout the whole post. That's what irked me. Not to mention the whole thing came across as whiny and just begging for sympathy.

I suppose "babe" would be preferable to "chick" and I think that's because, as you said, at least I wouldn't be being compared to a farm animal. And a baby farm animal, at that! Like you also said, "babe/baby" is much more gender transferable.

What about "dear" and "honey"? I see those as gender transferable, and I think I prefer those the most. Likely because I've heard my grandparents call each other that my whole life, though. :)

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think I might have a bit of tooth loss due to the grinding that happens every time I see it.

Yes, there was definitely some misogyny in there, but it was as much cultural as personal. Society, especially American (in the Western world), seems to be very misogynistic. It boggles my mind how much crap women will take for the love of a "good" man. (It brings to mind a lovely song - "I spent my last $10 (on birth control and beer)" by Two Nice Girls.) No, Gun made some good points, but I think she missed the forest for the trees.

It was the whiny bit that turned me off the most, actually. I may whine quite a bit, but at least I'm not pathetic about it. (she says hopefully)

Oh, there are definitely endearments that I not only put up with, but like, whether their genderproof or not. "Dear" and "honey" are definitely in a different category from the other three. They're not only decent, but sweet. (pun only somewhat intended).

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

You call me by my name, or light of my life, darling (if you're blond and drawl it just so), or Mistress at whose feet i am not fit to grovel.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

So "Shive, babe" wouldn't cut it?

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

It'd cut something all right.

Amongst lawyers She is traditional - from She, the book by Rider Haggard via Rumpole of the Bailey .. She who must be obeyed.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

No "little one"? (Let me guess, that would be your come back to being called "babe" "chick" or, erm, ShivE. Sorry bout the typo, btw.)

She... good ring to that. Good book?

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

No one ever has, but I suspect that the reply would be something along the lines of "I don't mind you calling me babe, if you don't mind me calling you arsehole."

She

is a woman of outstanding beauty who is immortal, we think, looking for the reincarnation of her lover so she can make him immortal. It doesn't end well. 1930's ish. Probably mildly racist by modern standards.

it's on Gutenberg as I recall. Haggard used to do quite a good thriller.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was thinking along dirtier lines.

Hmm. Sounds interesting. I think I'll be putting it on my list. Thanks!

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

Fandom has corrupted you then.

How about Mudblood Pet - because even Mudblood's need pets. :-)

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Corrputed well before Potter ever came into my life.

*blushes* misunderstood you. But it still holds that I'm more a half-blood, so I can't use that one.

[zalena.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I guess I'd go with 'babe' but only with a lot of irony attached. 'Beautiful' is always acceptable, and anything regarding sweetness is tolerated ('honey'), but I prefer pet-names to be tailor-made. I prefer not to be called any kind of animal, or to have the word 'pants' appearing after any adjective. 'Sugar-mouse,' 'Sassy-pants,' etc.

You might appreciate Why 'Nice Guys' = Bleah! at heartless-bitches.com. A lot of the things people (not just guys) do that are considered 'nice' can be very manipulative. I think the key isn't just 'give and take,' but genuine sharing. This is difficult to do in a relationship that does not have some kind of equal standing for both parties and the way they regard each other and themselves.

I have to tell you that most of the nice guys I know go for women who needy and damaged. Ditto for nice girls going for assholes. (Of which I am one, specializing in narcissists. We're hoping that's changed now, but I haven't had a chance to practice my new 'skilz.')

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

Same. It's not something that I'll have to decide any time soon, though, seeing as DH isn't exactly the "babe" or "chick" type guy, not to mention the insecurity he already feels about our age differene (not often, but...) to keep him from using "little one." Besides the fact that I dislike those terms, that is.

Hmm. Overall, the HBI article is right on, but they are generalizing an awful lot. But, yes, manipulation does seem to be the cause of a lot of "nice" actions. (I'll admit that DH fits into a lot of the HBI's categories, and it has taken him a long time (and several disastrous relationships) to get it.)

We're all needy and damaged on some level. It's a matter of finding someone whose neediness and damage is compatible with ours that's the key.

[fishity.livejournal.com]

I'd be okay with "baby" or "babe" because I'm old enough (and because there's only a small age difference between me and Mr. F) to not see it as belittling my status as an adult. As for "chick", I can't even imagine it being used in a non-ironic way!

Mr. F and I call each other all kinds of weird names. "Snookums" has been become a favourite lately, but foods feature quite often too (sugarcube, cereal, meatball...we're not terribly serious about nicknames, you see).

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

Babe. I am not a bird, I am a person. Thanks and good night.

That said, I live in a country where "hen" is a common polite thing to call people, even those you don't know. Weird that.

[azmeredith.livejournal.com]

I absolutely despise the term "little one." UGH. However, I don't mind the term "chick," while I detest "babe." It must be because I refer to myself as a "chick" all the time. As in, "I'm one happy chickie today," or things of that sort. I have no idea how I got started doing that. Perhaps it was some regional affectation that I got used to at some point in my life. Oh well.

[azmeredith.livejournal.com]

I have to post an addendum. I don't mind if certain friends refer to me as babe or chick, but I absolutely cannot stand it when a MAN does, especially one I don't know. Probably because I can view it as a term of endearment when a femal friend says it, but as a mockery or degradation when a man says it.

[averygoodun.livejournal.com]

I'm the same way, actually. When the term "gal" "girl" or "woman" doesn't cut it, I say "that chick" rather than "that babe." It still has a slightly condescending tone to it, but it's nowhere near as degrading as when a man uses the term. :-)